Comments on Frunobulax 57 (Danny S Recovered Alcoholic): Icelandic Alkies Know Better Than We Do

Not sure exactly what is in your head on this - so...

2008-11-22T15:40:00.000-05:00

Not sure exactly what is in your head on this - so let me not say yes or no -- just tell you how I do it and then let you see what your thinking is on that.

Anyone with a drinking problem - I consider a prospect for what we (I) am offering. I am offering them a solution to their alcoholism IF they are alcoholic and then they can come join us in fellowship too. I can show them how to make that determination by making clear the distinction between the ‘the alcoholic and the non-alcoholic.”.

If they get clear on that distinction - as clear as I am - (and I am very clear on it because I have learned about alcoholism from those first 43 pages) then they will be able to come to the same determination that I will come to about them -- that either they ARE or ARE NOT “one of us”.

Hopefully, they will be honest about it and come to a ‘positive’ result ONLY IF it is their truth and not just say “I AM ALCOHOLIC” so that they can come to meetings and join the club or satisfy some other reason for attending AA meetings. - Like legal, espousal or just plain lonely hearts club stuff.

If they come to a ‘negative” result and not a” false positive’ --that although they may have a drinking problem, but perhaps their problems may be solved by less drastic means than a spiritual awakening, I would hope they would do so. If so then I have done them a tremendous service and not been quick to play God and tell them that they “ARE ALCOHOLIC” simply because they have drinking problem. They are not then pressured or “condemned’ to going to meetings for the rest of their lives by group members of me either. I have sponsored men OUT OF AA too. Not every “prospect” has successfully diagnosed themselves as real alcoholics or satisfied me that I should work with them. I have that obligation to them AND to the fellowship - to not bring non-alcoholics into the fellowship when they don’t need to be here. They then fall off my 'prospect" list.

They are then free to pursue less drastic means to solve their kind of problem - like counseling, putting the plug in the jug - all those willpower methods available to those who are not real alcoholics for whom the only solution is a spiritual awakening.

How’s does that do? I get this out of the Big Book by the way. Don’t let me dictate how you do it but if you use our book exclusively and set aside outside opinions I am quite positive that you and I will land right on the same landing pad. DJS

Thanks Danny it does a bit. I am understanding it...

2008-11-22T12:16:00.000-05:00

Thanks Danny it does a bit. I am understanding it to be ANY alcoholic or someone you think may be an alcoholic. You can approach them, if they respond, continue and if they don't see ya later. So in my question as to whether the 2 people I discussed were prospects, I suppose they are, until I find out otherwise. Yes?

Hi Kathey. Ialwasy think of a "prospect" in the wa...

2008-11-20T17:33:00.000-05:00

Hi Kathey. Ialwasy think of a "prospect" in the way the term is used on page 90:

"When you discover a prospect for Alcoholics Anonymous, find out all you can about him."

Of course being Prospect for AA meant that he was going to take the steps, not merely "suit up", "show up" and "get his hand up" in a meeting. The co-founders honored Primary Purpose as well as the purpose of the AA Group which was freedom from alcohol through the teaching and practicing of the Twelve Steps.

They continue, "If he does not want to stop drinking, don't waste time trying to persuade him."

I see it like you do. And from seeing the context from all of the pother uses of the word "prospect" it seem that the co-founders did too.

To Wit:

Remind the prospect that his recovery is not dependent
upon people. (99:3)

When your prospect has made such reparation as he can to his family, and has thoroughly explained to them the new principles by which he is living, he should proceed to put those principles into action at home. (98:3)

Your prospect may belong to a religious denomination. (93:2)

Under these conditions your prospect will see he is under no pressure.(91:2)

That the man who is making the approach has had the same difficulty, that he obviously knows what he is talking about, that his whole deportment shouts at the new prospect that he is a man with a real answer, . . . . (18:3)

Next day found the prospect more receptive. He had been thinking it over. "Maybe you're right," he said. "God ought to be able to do anything." (158:1)

Your junior executive may not agree with the contents of our book. He need not, and often should not show it to his alcoholic prospect. (148:1)

Do not be discouraged if your prospect does not respond at once. Search out another alcoholic and try again. You are sure to find someone desperate enough to accept with eagerness what you offer. (96:0)

One of our Fellowship failed entirely with his first half dozen prospects. He often says that if he had continued to work on them, he might have deprived many others, who have since recovered, of their chance.(96:0)

One day they called up the head nurse of a local hospital. They explained their need and inquired if she had a first class alcoholic prospect. (155:3)

Here was a prospect all right but, by the description, none too promising. (156:5)

It;s like a "prospect" for a sale. Prior to becoming a customer a person qualifies to BE a customer of the sales man - so that the salesman does not waste his time trying to 'close' a sale with someone who does not qualify. (IE- no need, no desire, no money) He is first a prospect - once he buys he's now a customer. AA 'members' are like 'customers'. :)

Hope that helps. DJS

Okay so the question is...what is a prospect? Cou...

2008-11-20T12:20:00.000-05:00

Okay so the question is...what is a prospect? Could you please read my post today and advise? It seems to me that what the Big Book is saying is to approach anyone, whether they ask for it or not and then determine whether they are interested in recovering. Not sure if I am off base here.

Just taking a guess but - I will bet that if you o...

2008-08-30T10:54:00.000-04:00

Just taking a guess but - I will bet that if you open that book up to the personal story "An Artists Conception" on page 380 - you'll find it. Am I correct? LOL - They later "moved" the quotation to Appendix II.

Wow. Nothing gets by you! :)
DJS

Danny.... Just wanted to say. about the quote .."...

2008-08-30T01:48:00.000-04:00

Danny.... Just wanted to say. about the quote .."Contempt prior to investigation"

I recently saw a 1st edition Big Book from 1944...a 5th printing I think.... And although the Spiritual experience is explained.... THE QUOTE DOES NOT FOLLOW... IT IS NOT THERE!?

DO you happen to know when the qute was put in? I think it's something Bill did for some reason that remains unknown even today!

There probably is such pain on earth. We can't be ...

2008-08-29T18:56:00.000-04:00

There probably is such pain on earth. We can't be the only sufferers of human torture so sever as to cause one to turn to his Creator for help. There are people who have spiritual awakenings for much lesser woundings I am sure. They have perhaps been less harmed than we - I don't know. I think perhaps their egos were not as hideously enlarged and therefor came to believe with less deflation necessary. I have noticed that teh happiest people I have ever met are the ones who live day-to-day and don't take things in life so seriously. Whereas the unhappiest ones make such a big FREAKIN' deal out of everything! DJS

i recently heard spiritual teacher Eckhart Tolle s...

2008-08-29T14:33:00.000-04:00

i recently heard spiritual teacher Eckhart Tolle say that it is the purpose of every human being on the planet to awaken - it is the whole purpose for our existence. (yea - i'm addicted to eckhart's teachings at the moment. very powerful!)

you said: "Heavy drinkers and problem drinkers hardly EVER "really try"." for some reason i can't imagine heavy and problem drinkers enduring enough 'suffering' to motivate them to take the ACTION required for us. if i had not been in such EMOTIONAL and MENTAL PAIN combined with the physical symptoms why would I go to what some see as 'drastic' measures? suffering is a powerful motivator (and i have heard - an excellent spiritual teacher as well)

but had i only been a problem or heavy drinker, i may not have ever been given the 'gift' of the chance of an awakening. in that regard i feel terribly blessed.

sorry - i know i probably sound like a SPAZ

back to work and actually WORK at WORK! :)